As you may know, one of the goals of Diversity Ink is to allow people with differing viewpoints to share them here. I recently came across a post about the Herman Cain sexual harassment controversy on the blog Reaganite Republican. I asked if he'd be interested in allowing me to use it here. Even if the debate ends in a draw, I think it's important to try and understand why someone with an opposing view thinks the way they do.
This was posted by "Reaganite Republican" on his blog on October 31, 2011:
This was posted by "Reaganite Republican" on his blog on October 31, 2011:
Ann Coulter on Agenda Behind Dubious Herman Cain 'Sexual Harassment' Attacks:
Liberals "terrified of strong, conservative, black men"
Taking-on stealthy Obama enablers Geraldo and Juan Williams on Fox last night, she explained what's likely driving sudden 'sexual harassment'' charges against the surging candidate... (Rivera/Williams: *crickets*):
And of course Coulter's right regarding how Herman Cain is viewed by the American Left... with terror in their skeevy little hearts. Regardless of whether there's any substance to these (anonymous) accusations, the zealous investigators who put the story out there yesterday are the Obammunist shills at Politico...
what does that tell you.
It's the same with Palin and Bachmann: anybody who can turn the Left's group-victimhood/entitlement model on it's ear (as they have through living example) is surely a dire threat to the so-called 'progressives' whole scam, especially when it's a "type" of guy -like Herman Cain- that was supposed to be so lost without their handouts, quotas, and visionary guidance.
But Mr Cain sees to have done just fine without them, somehow... as the man said himself a few weeks back,
For comprehensive coverage of this still-unfolding character assassination attempt (Ann says 'not', but imho could just-as-well be coming from the mud-slingin' Romney or Perry campaigns- I don't trust 'em) check out this from Herman Cain's #1 fan Stacy McCain, who's getting to the bottom of all this muck in a hurry -here-.
33 comments:
Besides the fact that I think Ann Colter is one Cheeseburger short of a Liberal (come on lady...eat something, you won't be so angry all the time!). I think the Republican foray into defending a black man has
shown that they just can't walk away from their own racism. Ann's comment: our Blacks are better than your Blacks...seriously? To a white person that little line looks cute, you know 'my Dad's bigger than your Dad' kind of thing. But...seeing as she or her buddy Rush have NO idea what Blacks think about anything I asked 'my expert' what he thought about that little line. Well let's just say, he didn't know who Ann Colter was before and now he wishes he never heard of her. He said, "What, does she thinks she owns us. Are we her propery?". My "expert" also thinks that it was Perry who dug this stuff up. Also I never thought of Politico as Liberal, but as Malcolm says, we have differing opinions around here.
You know who I feel for the most in this situation? The women who were victims of Mr. Cain, because now they will have the Ann Colters and Rush's after them, like they did something wrong. I also feel sorry for Mrs. Cain, and if they make her come out and defend him (yee..gods didn't we get enough of that will Bill and Hillary?).
I would have loved to see an Obama vs Cain election! OMG, could you imagine that? How great would that have been?
I have two thoughts on this whole situation:
1. Many use things like this to gain political advantage. Any sane person would think twice about running for any kind of political office. Once you run all the skeletons in you and your family's closet will be exposed. If they can not find anything and you are a threat, they may make something up. I am going to avoid rushing to judgement either way on this.
2. I don't think this is racially motivated. If such accusations were found out about Mitt Romney or Ron Paul, the Media would be all over it. I am not a Cain supporter, Ive been very clear about dislike of his ties to the BIS banking system. I have been accused of being racist because I am critical of Cain. Anyone who knows me will tell you I am not a racist. We on the right became disgusted when any criticism of Obama or his policies was branded as racism, when race had nothing to do with it. Now many who support Cain are using the exact same tactic against anyone who dares challenge him.
How does it feel, libs, to have your motives questioned? How does it feel to have the race card slapped on you? How does it feel to have people who know nothing about you call you a racist?
I don't like it when it comes from the left, and it's no better coming from the right, but I can't help thinking this is just desserts for the msnbc/politico crowd, whose racial chickens are coming home to roost.
Malcolm and RR:
I appreciate Malcolm’s desire to encourage discourse and to bridge partisan gaps, so I came to this post with an open mind, very willing to hear what RR had to say.
What I found was a source who is probably one of the least trustworthy around – Ann Coulter. Then, there is a lot of rhetoric and name-calling, which adds nothing to a debate and frankly turns me off.
To be honest, I have not paid much attention to the Cain story, but I suppose if anything came from reading this post, I will pay closer attention to it.
In the long run, a sex scandal (ture or untrue) won’t be nearly as threatening to Cain as when people realize he would have them pay $60 sales tax on $400 worth of groceries.
BJ
Silverfiddle: Name one instance in which msnbc/Politico injected race into this story? I admit i dont watch msnbc 24/7 or read politico every day, so any examples would be appreciated. (My "expert" wants to know why you are playing the race card? Lol)
We have no way to know whether these accusations are true or untrue. Based on his character I tend to think that this is a smear campaign and it is untrue, at least about the accusations. There was a settlement but lots of companies pay off people just cause its easier and quicker, not because the accusations have been found to be true.
I do think that liberals are afraid to some extent of having a successful black conservative in a high or the top spot in politics because that would be a threat to their big government plantation philosophy. But with saying that I don't think race was the primary issue here.
My point is that the left has been screaming "RACIST!" every time a tea partier moves or opens her mouth.
I truly hope this guy is not representative of the opposing view. He used such insulting language when speaking of anyone who disagrees with him that any valid point he might have made got lost in the hate.
Cain's biggest problem in my opinion is not that he was accused of harassment but the really poor job he and his staff are doing of handling it.
Ms Coulter's dismissal of the harassment as nothing because it didn't involve "groping" is despicable. In my own experience, verbal harassment was much worse than the physical.
First off, thanks again Reaganite Republican for allowing me to use this as a guest post.
When conservatives accuse liberals of playing the race card and wallowing in victimhood, it comes off as projection because that's exactly what they themselves often do! Look at how some of them are injecting race into the Herman Cain controversy and complaining about the criticism directed at him. As Trestin correctly pointed out, even if the candidate in question was white, this sexual harassment story would get covered.
The thought that the left is afraid of Herman Cain/black conservatives in general is laughable. If you were to take a poll, you'd probably find that a majority of us (me included) want Cain to get the GOP nomination. What does that tell you about our “fear” of Cain?! I think the people most afraid of Cain are the GOP establishment (Karl Rove, for example) and the candidates trailing him in the polls.
Ann Coulter’s "liberals are afraid of strong, black conservatives" meme falls even flatter when one considers a few more things:
1. You rarely, if ever, hear liberals criticize people like J.C. Watts or Tim Scott (South Carolina’s recently elected congressman). If someone black wants to be conservative, I couldn’t care less. However, when they make inflammatory remarks (claiming that blacks are brainwashed, living on the Democratic plantation, etc.), they’re getting called out for it. It’s not their blackness that’s being attacked, it’s their ideas.
2. Liberals don’t give white conservatives like Rick Perry or Mitch McConnell a pass when they make statements with which we disagree. Why should we treat black conservatives any different?
3. Former RNC chairman Michael Steele caught just as much hell from the right as he did from the left. Remember the fallout he faced from the right after he said the GOP hasn’t given blacks a good reason to vote Republican?
Although I’m a liberal, I think there is a place for black conservatism in this political environment. Below is a link to an excellent article about black conservatism over the past 30 years:
http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/01/opinion/robinson-cain-black-conservatives/
Sadly, black conservatives such as Herman Cain seem more interested in personal gain (via currying favor with the white members of the GOP base) than in advancing the political dialogue in this country.
Silverfiddle: Some of the criticism directed at the Tea Party was unfair in regards to charges of racism. However, to say that we cried “racist/racism” every time we criticized the TP doesn’t hold up to reality.
OK, if we're going to pedantically parse colloquial phrases like "every time a tea partier moves..." then I will be more precise in my language.
We on the right have had charges of racism leveled against us and it is tiring.
I have no sympathy for those who have come under Coulter's attacks. They've earned it.
Here I go again: who is Ann attacking. To just say msnbc, I would really like a name or two so I can look it up, Silverfiddle. Let me coral those liberal racist chicken. Where are they? I am serious, I want to know so I can make an educated decision on whether I want to watch msnbc at all anymore.
All you have to do is a simple google search to find the racism in the Tea Party, but I can't find anywhere that msnbc/politico made racial comments about Cain.
You can find racism everywhere in this country, yes even in the Democratic Party, but to let it go on without confronting it would be tantamount to condoning it. So I am asking any of you to point me in the direction of this liberal racism so that I too can ridicule them.
OK... I will type v-e-r-y s-l-o-w-l-y...
I am not accusing anyone on the left of racism, nor am I defending those who are.
Many on the left have been carelessly and copiously hurling charges of racism at those on the right, and I am enjoying seeing them get their own crap thrown back in their faces. It's about time.
I agree with Trestin, who feels that this is not an issue of race, but of political advantage at the moment. I am a Cain supporter having followed the man and listened to him for over three years. I have heard much of this rhetoric before ,but to say that NMSNBC is not involved in race baiting is ludicrous. They (I speak generally because I feel it is a general policy)will leap at any opportunity to turn a discussion on the issues into a heated racial attack. And when confronted with a real debate...it is kill the messenger.
One recent example is the confrontation with Coulter and now Rush again.
http://youtu.be/eT2f7LJRoNw
Thank you for typing so slowly Silverfiddle, it really brought into clarity what you were saying. While we can show examples of the racism in the Tea Party and can thusly call it out, you make generalizations. The difference between your logic and mine is I don't feel personally attacked when some says "all liberals are racists" because I am secure in the knowledge that I am not.
Point to it Scott, please. Actual examples would be nice so we can watch and judge. The complaint has been that the left generizes when it says that the Tea Party is racist then you make generalizations...huh? Proff, I want proof (and thank you so much for the Rushbo clip, I have been wanting to listen to that all day, but have been too busy to look it up...made my laugh out loud! "23 years they have been calling me a racist" that line alone is precious!)
maryb1161:
I'm so glad you brought up generalities and proof.
Speaking of which, please educate us by showing how the tea party contains a greater percentage of racists that the society at large.
I couldn't possibly do that Silverfiddle, because I don't believe it is true....but since you asked, I googled and found this study. I have not done more than a cursory scan of some of the numbers, so don't attribute this to me showing facts. You read, you decide.
http://depts.washington.edu/uwiser/racepolitics.html
The Tea Party is not perfect, but the vast majority of those in the Tea Party have gone out of their way to shun Nazis who wished to join. Compare that to OWS who was endorsed by the American Nazi Party. Most OWS people are not racist, but to point at isolated incident and say it proves the Tea Party is racist, when OWS has problems (if not more) is hypocrisy at it's finest.
Can we stop using race as weapon? It is like the boy who cried wolf, saying someone is a racist has lost all meaning; which is horrible, because when a real racist emerges people are indifferent.
Herman's not catching a beating because he's black. He's catching a beating because he's conservative.
Maybe there are some on the left who wonder how a black person--any person--could be a conservative. But that's just politics.
Everyone thinks they're right about what they believe. I'm only afraid of the ones who know they're right.
Per one response here, I'm not sure I'd call anyone a "victim" yet. Until more information comes out, it's as likely that someone jumped at an opportunity for cash just as much as it's likely Cain said something inappropriate.
Also, remember that sexual harassment isn't "sexual" at all. "Sexual" is about gender - i.e. if a woman in the workplace is made to feel uncomfortable by a man (rare cases vice versa), all holy hell breaks loose.
Assuming something like Cain being flirtatious, this will undoubtedly tarnish him much, much more than it did a habitual harasser like Bill Clinton. But it won't be because Cain's black.
I can agree with Coulter to an extent that some on the left would be fearful of a powerful minority on the right. A lot of Democratic politicians rely heavily on the minority vote. So they'd fear anyone who gives them competition.
Lastly, it's more logical that this story "broke" from the right and not the left. Obama himself has made it clear that Romney's on his mind, so any shills out there wouldn't focus their efforts on someone they don't believe would even win the nomination.
Like all things, though, I could definitely be wrong.
maryb1161:
Thank you for the link! And it was wise of you to distance yourself from the study
@ Josh, Herman Cain isn't catching a beating because he's black NOR because he's conservative, it's because his agenda/999/909/ is not something the American people will embrace. He is NOT presidential because his economic plan sucks.... he has NO concept of foreign affairs, his lack of foreign policy smarts is frightening.... he has zero qualifications to be POTUS. As for this harassment charge coming to the forefront, I also believe it's driven by the Right because it is they who fear Herman Cain, NOT the Left! That man will never win the nomination and contrary to the numbnuts Limpy, it's NOT because he is a Black Conservative! Hilarious!!
Even the sane Righties fear the GOP candidates, listen to Joe Scarborough. He said today the Republicans are secretly talking about surrendering 4 more years to Obama because they will never get behind Romney, who they believe will get the nomination because he comes across as the most sane.
GOBAMA 2012!!
He is NOT presidential because his economic plan sucks.... he has NO concept of foreign affairs, his lack of foreign policy smarts is frightening.... he has zero qualifications to be POTUS.
Wow. You just described Obama!
All good fun Malcolm- thanks for the opportunity, although we are looking at things from different angles, I find your insights thought provoking and informative
btw I'm going to check out your radio show online...
One of the 9s in the 999 plan is insanely iffy at best, suicidal at worst. The imposition of a sales tax coming from on high at the federal level is something that makes me want to get Herman in a headlock.
More taxation is a decidedly liberal thing in this day and age, and at least they're only looking to crucify job creators.
However, at least Herman is attempting to fix the tax code.
Fix one of those 9s and this is really a plan that everyone should be able to get on board with.
It would shut off a lot of those loopholes companies take advantage of. It would incentivise people to bring business to America. And it would really simplify the entire tax process for everyone.
But Cain's probably finished. He does not have the machine behind him like Clinton had. Cain doesn't have a Dick Morris or multiple friendly media outlets.
When it's all said and done, I think we'll find that Cain did nothing "wrong."
He just gave that creepy-smoking-video smile to women and they flipped the phuck out thinking he was a pervert.
It won't even be about his plan from this point forward. And that's sad. At least he has a plan and not a make-'em-up-as-you-go, keyword-specific internet marketing-like approach to solving problems through lip service.
Silver Fiddle: Thank you for being more specific with your choice of words. The reason I pointed out your “every time” reference is because more often than not I hear conservatives respond in one of the following ways when someone criticizes the Tea Party for having elements of racism:
1. They accuse the critic of saying all Tea Party people are racist.
2. They employ the “No True Scotsman” argument by accusing the offenders at the rallies of being liberal plants.
3. They say they’ve seen no evidence of racism within the TP movement.
Not only are these tactics intellectually dishonest, they also sometimes serve to shut down any rational debate one could have about the TP movement.
I agree that some of the charges of racism against the right have been bogus. Having said that, do you think some of these racism charges against people on the right have merit?
In regards to your questions about how it feels to have charges of racism leveled against us due to the Herman Cain controversy, I’m not bothered by it at all. It‘s not the first time the right has made baseless charges of racism against the left and it won‘t be the last. Some on the right did the same thing when liberals criticized Allen West earlier this year. If you want to revel in glee over the fact that the left is getting hit with these charges, have at it. I think it’s rather pointless because the people making these baseless charges look like fools in the eyes of many
Scott: Since I don’t want this thread to go off-topic, would you be interested in writing a guest post about how MSNBC has turned discussions on the issues into heated racial attacks? By the way, thanks for the link to Rush’s show. It was typical Rush: circular logic, sweeping generalizations, failure to present evidence to back up his arguments, etc. Lawrence O’Donnell gave an excellent rebuttal the other night to Rush’s comments about Toure.
Trestin: It’s commendable that members of the TP shunned Nazis who wanted to join the movement. However, it’s false equivalency to compare that to the American Nazi Party endorsing the OWS movement. How can one group stop another group from endorsing them?
.
I totally agree with you about how we need to stop using race as a weapon. Discussions on race can be beneficial for the country. However, playing the “We’re not the racists, you are” blame game only serves to kill any type of rational discussion on the topic.
Mary: Thanks for the link to that survey. I believe this is the same survey Chris Matthews covered on “Hardball” last year. However, since it would be impossible for Chris and his guests to cover everything, it’s great to be able to review all of the data myself. Very interesting.
Sue: Very nice breakdown of exactly why Herman Cain isn’t qualified to be POTUS. For Ann Coulter to claim the left resorted to race tactics because they can’t attack Cain on the issues is ridiculous. Credit to Andy Levy (one of the hosts of “Red Eye”) for rightfully calling out Ann for playing the race card.
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/andy-levy-accuses-ann-coulter-of-playing-the-race-card-in-tense-red-eye-clip/
Reaganite Republican: You’re welcome. I hope you can stop by again to take part on any future posts here.
In case you are around, my show this week will feature all 90s music.
Josh: I’m not ready to count Cain out yet. Since a Quinnipiac poll showed that support for Cain nearly doubled in the aftermath of the scandal, a Clintonian political machine (although beneficial) may not be a requirement in his case. I think Cain’s fiercest supporters are viewing his candidacy as a way to “stick it” to the left/so-called liberal media. Although I doubt Cain did anything on the level of politicians like Bill Clinton or David Vitter, I think something happened. I say this because one of the women wants to come forward with her side of the story. If Cain’s hands were truly clean, she’d likely stay quiet.
I don't know how much credence I put in anyone who suddenly has a story they must tell once someone else is famous, but if what the third supposed victim said in the AP is true for Cain's "harassment," then I believe we could all agree that it's not "harassment" but more of that well-intentioned law being abused.
If you cannot give a woman a compliment or ask her out on a date without being sued, then WTF is it all worth anyway?
Maybe it's not strictly professional. But in this context, assuming the woman is being truthful, what's filed as "harassment" is really just a way for a woman to flex if she's not interested in the guy.
I won't generalize too harshly here, but guys not interested in a girl's advances don't seem to get angry about their advances.
Women, on the other hand, have that "I can't believe this mf'er just asked me out!" look about them. And Pete help us all if they have recourse to kill us until we die for eternity.
But that's just my Mars/Venus bit for the day. I don't know what happened with Cain specifically. But I'd like to!
Thanks for the invite Malcolm. i will consider it. There are a few examples of distortion that spring to mind but not being an avid MSNBC viewer some research will be needed. So many soundbites and so little time you know. Rush is as he intends to be at such times...circumspect and wary of minefields...as am I.
I forgot to mention that Herman Cain has also played the race card in this scandal. He also stated he has no evidence to support his claim.
Josh: I'm skeptical of the 3rd woman whose come forward. Since she didn't press charges, I suspect she's out to make a buck.
As for the other two, Herman Cain doesn't strike me as a man who'd cave and agree to a settlement if the charges were flimsy. Even if the gag order is lifted and we get to hear from one or both of the women, their claims will have to be pretty damning in order to stop the Cain Express. I just read that his campaign raised $400K on Monday.
Scott: The way you sounded, I thought you WERE an avid viewer of MSNBC. At any rate, I hope you take me up on my offer. I can think of a few examples of race baiting at MSNBC myself. On the other hand, I know of several instances of it happening over at Fox "News".
...people making these baseless charges look like fools in the eyes of many
We agree there! Ascribing motives to people you don't know is foolish. Even worse when someone smears a whole group of people.
I can not speak for all Democrats, but I for one would love to live in a Country with a two party political system where both candidates are black. When that happens I think the US has WON! Go Herman!
Then Ann Colter can sing her little "our blacks are better than your blacks" song all the way up to 2012 and possibly beyond! (I am sorry but that IS really racist...my rule of thumb: if it creeps you out to just type it, there is definately something wrong with it!)
Trestin: I don't appreciate your implication that I purposely didn't mention your Facebook thread in my response. The fact of the matter is, I had forgotten about that page. Had you mentioned the page in your comments here, I would've referenced it in my response.
Although I respect the sentiments of the OWS people in the FB thread who said they'd allow the neo-Nazis to participate in the protests for the sake of free speech, I wouldn't want them there. The presence of the neo-Nazis would likely be nothing but trouble.
If the neo-Nazis did show up, hopefully we would see OWS protesters react the same way they did to a man holding an anti-Semitic sign:
http://f.cl.ly/items/3u21212a2K1f1L231I1N/Screen%20Shot%202011-10-17%20at%2012.21.29%20PM.png
Mary: Why do you want black candidates, isntead of the best candidates?
What is so wrong about looking at the content of someone's character instead of the color of their skin?
Wouldn't it be wonderful if we lived in a country where the only judgement of a person running for office was the content of his/her character and whether he was intelligent enough. But we do not live in that country, unfortunately. We live in a country where our first black President is vilified for having a racist Christian preacher, while being called a Muslim. Where releasing a birth certificate isn't enough, he has to release his "long form" which still isn't enough. We live in a country where, "I want to see his grades" is asked of our first black President.
Why do you these people believe he is a bad Christian Muslim, with no valid American Birth Certificate, and a Diploma from Harvard with poor grades? It is the content of his character?
So dmark, why have we had no black President before Barack Obama? Has there been no black man that had content to his character? Herman Cain has shown that the content of his character may be questionable, but I think intellectually he is more than qualified. To ask why I want "black candidates, instead of the best candidates" is to presume that black candidates couldn't be the best? No I don't believe you were saying that, I think you were just taking a swipe at me, pointing out my "racism", so to speak, but to do as you say we would have to negate hundreds of years of racism in this country. I can't do that, because I see it threw the eyes of the people I love the most every day.
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