I have been upset about this Arizona thing for weeks; even before it was passed. It is unbelievable to me that our United States of America would even allow such a barbaric practice in this day and age... Deplorable. Embarrassing. It WILL be overturned because it IS unconstitutional. It is a way to demean hispanics and give law enforcement the teeth it needs to basically be abusive at will. We already have too much racial profiling going on with African-Americans and people of Mid-Eastern descent. This just tops the cake. People of Arizona, search your hearts and minds and put your foot down. THIS BAD LEGISLATION is what will now define your state. Good luck with that. BOYCOTT ARIZONA!!!!!
@Teresa How is this unconstitutional? This law allows Arizona to enforce the federal law that has been on the books since around 1952 which the federal government is clearly not willing to enforce and not keeping Arizonans and other citizens safe- one recent incident- the Arizona rancher just killed and its complete mayhem in parts of Arizona due to crimes being caused by illegal immigrants.
The police officers may not just stop the immigrants for any reason. They actually must be breaking the law first, and then this gives police the authority or option to ask for the immigrants green card or correct documentation.
Is it unconstitutional for U.S. citizens to be forced to either carry a drivers license or state I.D.?
This video is about as edgy as a bowling ball, about as accurate as the Waterboy explaining how black holes occur, and about as likely a scenario as Jurassic Park.
One thing you can count on every time someone needs to sell some records - another expert heard from.
It makes me think, alright. It makes me think about the lack of outrage over being forced on a national level to show proof of insurance without any outcry, compared to the outcry over being forced (if you're engaged with the law already no less) to show proof of citizenship.
Even though I do disagree with Arizona's law, I say good for them!
Stir up this issue and get people involved, even if they're going to jump to exaggerated conclusions.
The fact of the matter is that Arizona is in big trouble due to illegal immigration, and it's high time more attention was brought to it.
Now we can all see the gross lack of responsibility coming from the federal government. And even though folks who sat silent until now protesting won't give a good goddamn about it, it still lets unaffiliated folks see just how inept the government is.
The open borders crowd won't care regardless. They're a special breed of illogical. But now we'll hopefully get a solution that allows easy access for virtuous people to come in legally and more restricton for the unjust.
Teresa and Josh... Would like to start my response with a key fact: Numbers from the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics at the Department of Justice show that the violent crime rate for Arizona was 447.0 per 100,000 population in 2008; the LOWEST SINCE 1971. The property crime rate for Arizona was 4,291.0 per 100,00 in 2008; the LOWEST SINCE 1966!!!
So, let's take this so-called "crime spree" out of the equation...We can tuck it away with the notion that any healthy African-American male in this country is part of a gang, is a drug user and/or dealer, and probably ready to commit a crime any moment if left unattended.
Our country already has a HUGE racial profiling problem. Ask any minority person who has a driver's license or who takes a wrong turn and suddenly finds himself lost in a community that does not embrace racial diversity.
It is unconstitutional because our country was founded on a key principle that we are all "equal", as human beings, not subject to race, gender, age, etc. This legislation basically wants an entire population to go along with "showing papers" because the police "say" they won't abuse it. LOL! Are you KIDDING me? THAT'S the reassurance???
Bottom line, there are thousands of Hispanics in Arizona who were BORN HERE, in America! Lots of other minorities as well. But let's be honest, Arizona doesn't think they have an "immigration" problem, they are unhappy with brown people, those pesky Mexicans... Targeting one group of people because of race is unconstitutional. We are better than this.
Arizona's legislation is based on hate and an inability to accept people who are different. The same state who fought vehemently to NOT honor the Martin Luther King Jr. National Holiday. Yep. These are some evolved folks...
Who will stop all of those pesky illegal Canadians, Indians, Pakistanis, Asians, etc.? Teresa, do you REALLY think these "illegals" will be approached as much as Hispanics? Think about it. Thanks.
Teresa, First do you know what the ratio is of illegal Hipanics living in Arizona is in comparison to illegal Canadians, Indians, Pakistanis, Asians, etc.? Just because there is more of one ethnic background arrested than another doesn't mean that there is ethnic profiling going on. You must take into account other factors also.
I have a next door neighbor who is a police officer, he is a moderate politically, who has researched and is knowlegable on the Arizona law and he stated that this law just enforces the federal law which the Feds are unwilling to enforce.
"Numbers from the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics at the Department of Justice show that the violent crime rate for Arizona was 447.0 per 100,000 population in 2008; the LOWEST SINCE 1971. The property crime rate for Arizona was 4,291.0 per 100,00 in 2008; the LOWEST SINCE 1966!!!"
Did you have a link?
But, even if the crime rate is lower that doesn't mitigate the fact that a majority of the (violent) crimes seem to be being caused or perpetrated by illegal immigrants. If we can reduce the crime rates even further by eliminating the problem, being illegal immgration, wouldn't that be a good thing?
To me, low crime rates would be a good thing.
Plus, these people are here illegally. It is there responsibility to come to the United States with the proper documentation.
I disagree with the law (not for make believe profiling reasons), but I find it hard to argue against at this point.
After learning more about it on my own and not buying what folks are shouting about zee Germanz and zee paperz, it is, like stated above me, a cleaned up version of the federal law that was not being implemented due to negligence.
If folks want to jump on the reactionary side of the debate, that's perfectly reasonable. But painting the rest of us as bigots by association is absolutely ridiculous.
Equality means illegal Latinos are criminals like everyone else breaking the law. But that's not the case. Folks want special exemption and amnesty, and any other way you go after the problem is evil white America.
It seems like a lot of folks know their true feelings of compassion won't hold up to law or logic, so it becomes easier to go with the number-one winning debate stopper in America--racism--and Arizona wanting to deport everyone more than 2 shades of brown. '
Hell, what ISN'T racist according to some folks? I've been hearing that I'm a racist for so long that I checked my back yard for a slave this morning. Tommorow I might go down to the park and put a "White's Only" sign on the water fountain.
Teresa, you can get some great data and follow up on the stats I cited yesterday from FactCheck.org, or you can go right to the US Bureau of Justic Statistics website. Good stuff! Josh, sorry you've been accused of being racist so often, I would ask you to look within yourself and you may discover there's good reasons why the accusations are flying your way. Funny, seems to be no coincidence that it's white folks that think this legislation is just fine and dandy. Most white people have rarely, if ever, faced profiling, discrimination, etc., so it is very EASY to wonder aloud what all the fuss is for... Josh, what if every day that you left your house and got in your vehicle you knew in the back of your mind that you could be stopped (failure to use a turn signal, air freshner hanging from the visor, performing a rolling-stop, etc.) and forced to show papers proving you are legal? You would REALLY be ok with that? That's what Hispanics in Arizona will face daily. All the "offenses" I mentioned are all legal, just-cause-reasons, to pull these folks over, then ask for papers. This IS just like the Jewish people during World War II. Got your papers? You're good. No papers? Off to the camp. In Arizona's case, off to jail and then deportation. A legal, American citizen, who is Hispanic will equally be asked for papers. They are AMERICAN! Why should they have to prove that every time an inquiry occurs. You and I don't have to do that, Josh and Teresa. And I bet you'd be pretty pissed if you did. And Josh, THAT is why it is RACIST! Judging whether someone is "legal" or not based on the color of their skin is ridiculous and insulting to the thousands of LEGAL Hispanic citizens. Everyone seems to forget we have legal, Hispanic, families that are 3rd, 4th, 5th generation AMERICANS. There is no logical argument that makes it ok to make these people prove at will that they are American, period. If you cannot get that, there is nothing left to discuss. If all of the white people of Arizona agree to be subject to showing papers at will, then maybe they could back up that legislation. But, since most of them are RACIST, it would never occur to them to go along with such a thing. Hispanics are viewed as "less-than", and until that changes, we've got bigger problems than showing papers.
If I were in the country illegally, I suspect I would fear those things every day.
I can't reply to the rest of it. It's asked/said while asserting America is a horrifically racist country, while guaranteeing Arizona lawmakers are racist and are trying to ethnically cleanse their state.
8 comments:
I have been upset about this Arizona thing for weeks; even before it was passed. It is unbelievable to me that our United States of America would even allow such a barbaric practice in this day and age... Deplorable. Embarrassing. It WILL be overturned because it IS unconstitutional. It is a way to demean hispanics and give law enforcement the teeth it needs to basically be abusive at will. We already have too much racial profiling going on with African-Americans and people of Mid-Eastern descent. This just tops the cake. People of Arizona, search your hearts and minds and put your foot down. THIS BAD LEGISLATION is what will now define your state. Good luck with that. BOYCOTT ARIZONA!!!!!
@Teresa
How is this unconstitutional? This law allows Arizona to enforce the federal law that has been on the books since around 1952 which the federal government is clearly not willing to enforce and not keeping Arizonans and other citizens safe- one recent incident- the Arizona rancher just killed and its complete mayhem in parts of Arizona due to crimes being caused by illegal immigrants.
The police officers may not just stop the immigrants for any reason. They actually must be breaking the law first, and then this gives police the authority or option to ask for the immigrants green card or correct documentation.
Is it unconstitutional for U.S. citizens to be forced to either carry a drivers license or state I.D.?
This video is about as edgy as a bowling ball, about as accurate as the Waterboy explaining how black holes occur, and about as likely a scenario as Jurassic Park.
One thing you can count on every time someone needs to sell some records - another expert heard from.
It makes me think, alright. It makes me think about the lack of outrage over being forced on a national level to show proof of insurance without any outcry, compared to the outcry over being forced (if you're engaged with the law already no less) to show proof of citizenship.
Even though I do disagree with Arizona's law, I say good for them!
Stir up this issue and get people involved, even if they're going to jump to exaggerated conclusions.
The fact of the matter is that Arizona is in big trouble due to illegal immigration, and it's high time more attention was brought to it.
Now we can all see the gross lack of responsibility coming from the federal government. And even though folks who sat silent until now protesting won't give a good goddamn about it, it still lets unaffiliated folks see just how inept the government is.
The open borders crowd won't care regardless. They're a special breed of illogical. But now we'll hopefully get a solution that allows easy access for virtuous people to come in legally and more restricton for the unjust.
Teresa and Josh... Would like to start my response with a key fact:
Numbers from the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics at the Department of Justice show that the violent crime rate for Arizona was 447.0 per 100,000 population in 2008; the LOWEST SINCE 1971. The property crime rate for Arizona was 4,291.0 per 100,00 in 2008; the LOWEST SINCE 1966!!!
So, let's take this so-called "crime spree" out of the equation...We can tuck it away with the notion that any healthy African-American male in this country is part of a gang, is a drug user and/or dealer, and probably ready to commit a crime any moment if left unattended.
Our country already has a HUGE racial profiling problem. Ask any minority person who has a driver's license or who takes a wrong turn and suddenly finds himself lost in a community that does not embrace racial diversity.
It is unconstitutional because our country was founded on a key principle that we are all "equal", as human beings, not subject to race, gender, age, etc. This legislation basically wants an entire population to go along with "showing papers" because the police "say" they won't abuse it. LOL! Are you KIDDING me? THAT'S the reassurance???
Bottom line, there are thousands of Hispanics in Arizona who were BORN HERE, in America! Lots of other minorities as well. But let's be honest, Arizona doesn't think they have an "immigration" problem, they are unhappy with brown people, those pesky Mexicans... Targeting one group of people because of race is unconstitutional. We are better than this.
Arizona's legislation is based on hate and an inability to accept people who are different. The same state who fought vehemently to NOT honor the Martin Luther King Jr. National Holiday. Yep. These are some evolved folks...
Who will stop all of those pesky illegal Canadians, Indians, Pakistanis, Asians, etc.? Teresa, do you REALLY think these "illegals" will be approached as much as Hispanics? Think about it. Thanks.
Teresa,
First do you know what the ratio is of illegal Hipanics living in Arizona is in comparison to illegal Canadians, Indians, Pakistanis, Asians, etc.? Just because there is more of one ethnic background arrested than another doesn't mean that there is ethnic profiling going on. You must take into account other factors also.
I have a next door neighbor who is a police officer, he is a moderate politically, who has researched and is knowlegable on the Arizona law and he stated that this law just enforces the federal law which the Feds are unwilling to enforce.
"Numbers from the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics at the Department of Justice show that the violent crime rate for Arizona was 447.0 per 100,000 population in 2008; the LOWEST SINCE 1971. The property crime rate for Arizona was 4,291.0 per 100,00 in 2008; the LOWEST SINCE 1966!!!"
Did you have a link?
But, even if the crime rate is lower that doesn't mitigate the fact that a majority of the (violent) crimes seem to be being caused or perpetrated by illegal immigrants. If we can reduce the crime rates even further by eliminating the problem, being illegal immgration, wouldn't that be a good thing?
To me, low crime rates would be a good thing.
Plus, these people are here illegally. It is there responsibility to come to the United States with the proper documentation.
I disagree with the law (not for make believe profiling reasons), but I find it hard to argue against at this point.
After learning more about it on my own and not buying what folks are shouting about zee Germanz and zee paperz, it is, like stated above me, a cleaned up version of the federal law that was not being implemented due to negligence.
If folks want to jump on the reactionary side of the debate, that's perfectly reasonable. But painting the rest of us as bigots by association is absolutely ridiculous.
Equality means illegal Latinos are criminals like everyone else breaking the law. But that's not the case. Folks want special exemption and amnesty, and any other way you go after the problem is evil white America.
It seems like a lot of folks know their true feelings of compassion won't hold up to law or logic, so it becomes easier to go with the number-one winning debate stopper in America--racism--and Arizona wanting to deport everyone more than 2 shades of brown. '
Hell, what ISN'T racist according to some folks? I've been hearing that I'm a racist for so long that I checked my back yard for a slave this morning. Tommorow I might go down to the park and put a "White's Only" sign on the water fountain.
Teresa, you can get some great data and follow up on the stats I cited yesterday from FactCheck.org, or you can go right to the US Bureau of Justic Statistics website. Good stuff!
Josh, sorry you've been accused of being racist so often, I would ask you to look within yourself and you may discover there's good reasons why the accusations are flying your way. Funny, seems to be no coincidence that it's white folks that think this legislation is just fine and dandy. Most white people have rarely, if ever, faced profiling, discrimination, etc., so it is very EASY to wonder aloud what all the fuss is for...
Josh, what if every day that you left your house and got in your vehicle you knew in the back of your mind that you could be stopped (failure to use a turn signal, air freshner hanging from the visor, performing a rolling-stop, etc.) and forced to show papers proving you are legal? You would REALLY be ok with that? That's what Hispanics in Arizona will face daily. All the "offenses" I mentioned are all legal, just-cause-reasons, to pull these folks over, then ask for papers. This IS just like the Jewish people during World War II. Got your papers? You're good. No papers? Off to the camp. In Arizona's case, off to jail and then deportation. A legal, American citizen, who is Hispanic will equally be asked for papers. They are AMERICAN! Why should they have to prove that every time an inquiry occurs. You and I don't have to do that, Josh and Teresa. And I bet you'd be pretty pissed if you did. And Josh, THAT is why it is RACIST! Judging whether someone is "legal" or not based on the color of their skin is ridiculous and insulting to the thousands of LEGAL Hispanic citizens. Everyone seems to forget we have legal, Hispanic, families that are
3rd, 4th, 5th generation AMERICANS. There is no logical argument that makes it ok to make these people prove at will that they are American, period. If you cannot get that, there is nothing left to discuss. If all of the white people of Arizona agree to be subject to showing papers at will, then maybe they could back up that legislation. But, since most of them are RACIST, it would never occur to them to go along with such a thing. Hispanics are viewed as "less-than", and until that changes, we've got bigger problems than showing papers.
If I were in the country illegally, I suspect I would fear those things every day.
I can't reply to the rest of it. It's asked/said while asserting America is a horrifically racist country, while guaranteeing Arizona lawmakers are racist and are trying to ethnically cleanse their state.
There's nothing anyone can say to that feeling.
Good luck.
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